Overview

Last Updated: 19 April 2007

DoAll Bandsaws: An Abridged History

In my opinion, there are 3 "big names" in industrial bandsaws: DoAll, Grob, and Powermatic.  Powermatic is now owned by WMH tool group, which also owns Wilton and Jet (and a few others).  There are some other smaller players whose importance I don't mean to overlook, such as Kalamazoo (still independent) and Tannewitz (also independent).  DoAll and Grob Brothers are still independently owned and still building machinery here in the US.

Each of these companies has a rich, fascinating history, and I don't have the time (or disk space) to properly address each.  I choose, then, to focus briefly on the history of DoAll (for reasons which should be apparent).

In 1927, Continental Machines, Incorporated, of Minneapolis, MN was created as a tool & die making and stamping operation.  Mr. Leighton Wilkie and his father, Julius Wilkie, were founders, having made their fortune from an automotive connecting rod alignment machine.  
The name DoAll was given the band sawing machine designed and built by Leighton in 1933.  Some time between 1933 and 1938 Wilkie created The Doall Company, Inc., to sell contour machines (so named for the ability to efficiently cut internal and external compound curves).  The first contour machine was sold in 1935, so that's probably when DoAll as an entity came into being.  The importance of the contour machine, proclaimed by Leighton to be the seventh and final industrial-age machine tool to be developed, contributed to his election in 2004 to the Machine Tool Hall Of Fame.

Among his notable achievements, Leighton developed an automotive-style assembly line for DoAll machinery and pioneered the idea of marketing his machinery at trade shows where he could demonstrate their utility and make direct sales.

Leighton was also fascinated by the origin of man and the primates, as evidenced by the award bearing his name. 
Leighton Wilkie ca. 1943

Wilkie's book, Contour Sawing (1943), goes into some detail about DoAll, Inc.  According to the literature, "Grade A milk, chocolate milk, tomato juice, or orange juice are free at any time to the employees throughout the day and night", along with a free daily vitamin pill.  A copy of this book is worth the going rate (~$10) on ebay.

Continental Machines still exists, although I'm not sure what their primary function is today (their website isn't very helpful, and they don't respond to emails).  Update (4/19/07: Continental Machines' website is no longer!  If you click on the link I provided, you find it goes nowhere useful.  Continental hydraulics has its own site (significantly changed from what it was just 2 months ago), with a link to the DoAll site.  There no longer remains any active contact information for Continental Machines, Inc.  They do, however, still have an address: 5505 W 123rd St Savage, MN 55378 [952-890-3300].  Interestingly, Continental Hydraulics still lists themselves as a "division of Continental Machines, Inc.".
Finding and Purchasing a Bandsaw

I wanted an old saw, preferably pre-1970.  Machinery of this vintage, before modern stress analysis precipitated minimally-dimensioned parts, are of particularly heavy construction.  These old units were built.  In theory, then, they withstand decades of abusive environments better than later models.

I also wanted a unit that needed restoration rather than one in mint condition.  For me, most of the satisfaction is in bringing the creature back from the dead.

Sizing
For 6 months I narrowed down my options.  I researched a wide range - from the Harbor Freight horizontal/vertical machine (very popular) to big machines available in 26" throat and larger.  I decided on a machine with a 16"-  20" throat depth, which is the largest I can reasonably accomodate.  The 16" is the smallest industrial machine you can buy (to be fair, some argue  Grizzly makes an industrial-quality 12" saw).  Anything larger than 20" is impractically dimensioned for my purposes.  The most common throat sizes are 16", 18", 20", 26", and 36".

Powermatic
Available Powermatic units seem to be mostly 20" or larger, placing them at the upper limits of what I can accomodate.  They're also much more difficult to find than DoAll and Grob, for example.  It's not apparent why - I assume Powermatic simply wasn't as popular.

Grob Brothers
I came close to getting a Grob NS-18 - an outstanding saw.  It basically came down to either that, or a DoAll 16".  The closest NS-18 I could find was in Indianapolis, and it was too difficult to determine whether its condition warranted a full-day trailer rental and drive over to Indy.  If I'm ever inclined to purchase another machine it will almost certainly be an NS-18, as I'm curious how it compares with the DoAll.


DoAll
I settled on a 1941 DoAll Metalmaster from Advanced Machinery Companies, for $600 (+tax).  I inspected the machine before buying it, and had AMC power it up.  It's 220v 3-phase, so I can't run it at my house (3-phase power is prohibitively expensive).  It ran, including high and low range on the gearbox and the variable speed drive was functional.  However, in high gear it made a terrible metal-on-metal banging noise.

Before this Metalmaster came along, AMC offered me a newer DoAll (model V-16, I think) $1200.  That unit had a speed range of 50 - 5200 FPM, making it a bit more desireable.  But the price was too high given the condition.  Truth be told, $600 was a bit much for the saw I did buy.  But I didn't realize it until I dismantled it.  Knowing what I know now, I feel my saw was worth more like $400.  But you expect to pay a little extra for the convenience of buying from a dealer.


Some Notes on Pricing and Selection
Pricing on these machines varies wildly.  I've seen DoAll's in worse shape than mine going for over $2000.  Metalmaster's in excellent condition go for over $3000, and those that have been converted to 220 single-phase (extremely rare) can be even higher.  A brand-new DoAll 20" saw is well over $10000, depending on options.  Note that DoAll no longer makes anything smaller than 20" (the 2013-v is their smallest).  Grob's smallest model today is the 4V-18 (18" throat).  A new "roughly equivalent" single-phase Grizzly machine runs $3500, and one from Enco would be about $2800 (3 phase).  This is before shipping ($$$), of course.

It seems dealers and individuals demand higher prices for newer saws, independent of condition.  I find this ironic, since I think older saws are built better.  Many parts for the antique saws are still available from the OEM, although you have to donate your first-born to get them.  So the key, in my opinion, is to find an old saw without too many missing or difficult-to-fabricate parts, that is either non-functional and easily repaired, or functional but in need of some serious TLC.  I ended up with the latter.  The most critical, high-dollar part on these machines is the gear box.  A unit with a trashed gear box is almost worthless.  If you're considering buying any bandsaw with a 2-speed gearbox, you must inspect the functionality of that box prior to purchase.  [I give a few tips regarding gearbox inspection on the gearbox page.]

Serial Number
The serial number on my machine identifies it as being manufactured in 1941; the 3349th Metalmaster off the line.  The first (S/N 3801) rolled off the assembly line in 1938, and the model was discontinued around 1956.  There were few changes between '38 and '41, most of those being electrical.  A number of mechanical changes were made starting in '46 (larger speed ranges), but the basic design remained unchanged until production ended.

Moving the Saw
AMC is located roughly 8 miles from my home.  The machine weighs somewhere between 1000 and 1200 lb, depending on who's judging (I've not weighed it).  Either way, it's much too heavy for manual moving. The solution was to rent a trailer from the local Home Depot and tow it home.

That trailer is a Bil-Jax Escalate, which means the deck is elevating.  When I got the saw into the driveway, I simply lowered the deck to the ground and rolled it off with a rented pallet jack.  Simple 1-man job.

No disassembly was done when securing the saw to the trailer.  I used four 1000-lb rated  ratcheting cargo straps to hold it down.  The majority of the weight is below the table, so the chances of it tipping are exceptionally remote.  AMC was kind enough to bolt it to a pallet.

The total height on the pallet gave only a 1/2" clearance at the entrance to my garage (saw height on the pallet is about 74.5", garage opening is about 75").



Condition of 413349
The machine is a mess.  Notice the door on the drive train cover all bent to hell.  It's impossible to tell from the photo, but the front of the saw (near those 4 bolt heads) has large dents that look like forklift damage.

Fortunately for me, DoAll  built this saw exceedingly strong.  Most of the sheet metal is 0.137" (close to 10-ga.).  Most of the critical load-bearing components appear to be cast iron.  Everything else is steel, and there are a few bronze, brass, and small copper parts.

Most parts are present, with a couple notable exceptions.  The most important single component that's missing is the air pump.  The saw was originally equipped with an air pump and hose to blow chips  from the workpiece.  Most of the air hose is present, but the pump is gone.  It's not uncommon for the pumps to go bad (the vanes in the pump were plastic, easily dissolved if oiled), but I can't imagine why someone would have removed it altogether rather than simply removing the belt.  Anyway, it's gone and they don't make replacements.  A cheap worklight has been placed over the hole through which the air hose would normally pass.

Most of the important parts of the power feed mechanism are missing, and the large cast iron pulley bracket through which the power feed cables would run is broken beyond repair.  This is acceptable, since I probably wouldn't have used the mechanism anyway (too cumbersome).

You don't realize just how badly this machine has been beaten until you look at others from the same era.  I'm convinced 413349 was dropped on its side (perhaps multiple times).  For sure it was lifted with a strap around the upper wheel housing (I know this because the upper wheelhouse door is bent - a feat that would require a tremendous amount of force).  Not to mention the missing and broken parts.  She definetly needs a great deal of TLC.



The blade welder is a mess. Someone "rewired" it at some point, and screwed it all up.  It's highly unlikely it will ever work again, and the grinder is missing.  I might be able to find a used one in decent condition, but I don't plan to be welding my own blades anyway.  I'll probably just clean it up.

What's Become of DoAll?
So where is DoAll company today?  The current president and CEO is Mr. Michael Wilkie, who is somehow related to Leighton.

A close look at the management team shows a remarkable lack of technical expertise.  Of the 9 people serving as corporate management, there are 4 "Business Administration" degrees, 1 CPA, 1 lawyer, 1 IT guy, 1 marketing guy, and 1 guy with a BS in "Industrial Technology".  Not an engineer in the lot.  Michael Wilkie has nothing more than a "Business Administration and Finance" degree.  Don't get me wrong - I'm sure these guys are among the best in their field, but not a single engineer?  Seems like you'd want at least one at the top.

Recently I took the time to examine some photographs of a 2013-V (20" throat) manufactured within the last 10-15 years.  Gone are the days of solid cast wheels and large, solid handwheels.  It's a shame to see the company succomb to what I can only assume are the pressures of the modern economy, where "cheaper" is almost always taken over "better".  In the case of DoAll, it's particularly ironic, considering in 1943 the company founder wrote,

"In this machine tool, even more so than in other machine tools, there must be a relatively heavy and solid foundation and frame work to surround the cutting edge.  This ruggedness is absolutely essential to do precision work and to permit heavy duty and efficient sawing.  Attempting to use contour saws in a frail or lightweight machine would be like trying to use an end-mill in a light drill press instead of in a milling machine."
-Leighton Wilkie, DoAll Contour Saws (1943), page 13

In DoAll's defense, however, modern stress analysis means parts can be made smaller, lighter, and cheaper without loss of functionality under design loads.  That means if you operate the machine in strict accordance with the original manufacturer's instructions and limitations, there will be no significant difference in service life between an "overbuilt" machine and one that's built "just enough".  The difference between the two designs, however, lies in service life under conditions not specifically permitted by the original design.  Whether that is of any consequence is entirely up to the owner.  The "as strong as it needs to be and no stronger" design philosophy, however, implies lower resale value in the future.


Useful Links
Here are some useful links:
DoAll sawing home page
[The parts manual and operating manual are both located under "Bandsaw Parts Books".  Parts manual = Model ML_3801 - 5418353.pdf, operating manual = Model ML_V-16_V-26_V-36_V-60_Instr.pdf]

Doall's Company History (Partial)

McMaster-Carr (where I get most of my parts and supplies)

Practical Machinist (forum...my user name is "Grey Rider")

Home Machinist (forum...user name is "Grey Rider")